NOT MANY PEOPLE WILL COMMENT ON THIS ARTICULE BECAUSE WHEN I STATED THIS WHEN IT HAPPENED, THEY CALLED ME CRAZY TO MENTION ONE NAME INSULTED MY INTEGRITY AND ACTED AS IF I DID NOT KNOW WHAT I WAS TALKING ABOUT BECAUSE WE HAVE ALL OF THESE DEGREES ON HERE WHO DONT STEP FOOT IN THESE RURAL AREA'S THEY CANT TEACH THIS IN A BOOK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! EVEN AFTER I DID AN INDEPENDENT SURVEY A COUPLE OF WEEKS AGO AND POSTED MY RESULTS ON THIS FORUM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! MORE THAN ANYBODY ELSE ON THIS FORUM HAS DONE(IM HANDS ON AND IT SHOWS NOW)!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I PERDICTED THIS MONTHS AGO WHO'S HEAD IS IN THE SAND NOW?!!!!!!!!!!!!
LISTEN TO HOW SHE TALK TO ME ABOUT THIS SAME SUBJECT!!!!!!! CLICK ON THE (SHOOTING IN WEST OAKLAND LEAVES TO DEAD) AND READ THE DIALOG!!!!!!!!!! EGGBERT YOUR DAYS ON THIS FORUM ARE ALMOST OVER NO CREDITABILITY IN YOUR STATEMENTS YOU DONT KNOW WHAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT WITH MY OAKLAND HIGH SCHOOL DIPLOMA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
im here to speak for the people who live in the ghettos where these shooting are accuring,im one of the people who was swooped up in the ACORN GANG RAID!so u can say im part of the problem but i beg to differ.as we all see the problem has gotten worst why?not because the gang is locked up but because alot of u fail to face realilty,what am i talking about?first let me say this (U NEED TO GET INVOLVED)stop talking about the problem and be apart of the solution, how?first u have to stop being scared to talk to these kids,all of us are approachable,the reason i say this is because u dont even know whats the real issues in ur own cummunity,u dont know that most of these people dont see another option from where there standing.they dont have the resources most of u have r the knowlege to know were to start,but u do and guess what!U NOT TELLING THEM! there for ur also part of the problem ,if u want to change like the one obama seems to represent u have to start from( THE TOP DOWN NOT THE BOTTOM UP)u start wit the people who can make the most difference in the shortest period of time and u dont do that by locking up the gangs ,why not?silly question!because they have children also ,so what do u think happens when daddy goes of to prision,mommy goes to work as much as see can and jr is left to the neighborhood to mold him in our case(ghetto people)its those same indivuals u want to slam in jail.now let me wake u up to something reader,u want to fix the problem start at the core ,what is the core u ask?Slavery!oh dont clench up now yes SLAVERY is the reason ghettos even exsist.oh maybe thats too much for u to take in!so let me say this the people in the ghetto(who i represent )feel like u have turned ur back on them.is that true?ask yourself,if u see a tiger in the street hurt unable to walk what would u do?call the police right?because u feel the tiger will bite u correct?now if u see a group of young men in a low class neighbor with hoods on, u automatically think trouble.... well to me thats called stereo typing and racial profiling.these people r human beings not tigers u have to learn alot about urself before u can learn to have and open mind,its this type of thinking that creates the wide spread gap between being united as a cummunity because u cant lock us up and think its solved we have children who will grow the same way if u dont start helping with the main problem (CUMMUNACATION)!!!!!
Struggle, your post is a facinating lesson in contradiction. You openly admit that you and the others arrested were locked up for their involvement with the ACORN gang, but you think that it is wrong to do so because you all have children. When you had children you accepted a responsibility. That responsibility was to do everything for the betterment, care and safety of your children, even if it is difficult for you to do. Period. End of argument. Nothing more to say. If you were not willing to make sacrifices for your children, you should have never created them! I do not feel an iota of sorrow for you in this regard. Your kids I cry for nearly every night. You are correct, YOU have damned them to the streets - not the police. It was your choice to engage in criminal behavior that got you thrown in jail, not your kid's, not OPD's. Before you create anymore children, please keep this in mind. And you have some gall talking about the welfare of children when you (or others like you) are willing to engage in gun battles across the street from a day care. It is completely within your power to not engage in shoot outs where any innocent lives could be destroyed. You choose to do otherwise and stand on corners near daycare centers and houses. That makes YOU responsible if the children get hurt or killed. Please keep this in mind also. Finally, you have painted the perfect picture of the most inhospitable group on this green earth. You have likened yourself and your crew to a dangerous, injured animal. Anyone with a lick of sense knows not to go anywhere near injured animals, they are unpredictable and will attack without notice. By all accounts, many within the ACORN crew were also known to cluster up and attack the weak or isolated zebra to take what you could before leaving the carcass behind. Please explain to me why any of us should be the one to extend the olive branch to you as opposed to the other way around?
But jif, sum up this man's arguement and look at the finishing touches you just put on his arguement: "Anyone with a lick of sense knows not to go anywhere near injured animals, they are unpredictable and will attack without notice." What I feel he's saying is that within these communities, they are "injured animals"(little disclaimer--I'm not referring to them as animals, just continuing with the analogy) who lash out in the attempt to protect themselves. I recognize the injury and yes it is slavery. And I know some people get tired of Black Americans using that as an "excuse" for alot of issues within our community, but all in all that is where the issue stems from. Yes many have found a way to overcome it, but most have not. The world in general lives in a cycle that few brake free from and those that do are extremely strong. You said you feel sorry for his children because he's subjected them to the streets and then criticize him from possibly living through the exact same situation. I feel what he's saying, but at the same time struggle, there is a sense of contradiction here. Knowing what the issue is, I feel that you should try to be the change that you are looking for, for multiple reasons.
1) You already know that the people that look down on you aren't going to do a lick to help. So, telling the people in these forums what the issues are and how to stop them are falling on deaf ears. There minds are already made up and I think the only way of changing them, if that is a possibility, is to prove to them that you first care. I know that no one wants to help those who appear to not want it.
2) You yourself, unlike the people in these forums, live the life. You know what the root of the problem is in this community. Therefor, you have the best sollution as well as the in, which means you have their ears. But I can guarantee you that no one is going to care about what happens in your community until they see that your community cares for itself.
BLC, I understood the metaphor struggle was trying to illustrate. I am not certain he understood how truly apropos it was. I am not denying that there is a history of black Americans that is real and felt strongly. As you pointed out, it is not an excuse that many wish to hear in 2008. When it appears that a large swath of that community (For all those who want to freak out now, stop it! I am not saying all, every, always, etc.) is willing to wallow in ignorance as proof of their dedication to so-called black culture, I get fed up. I am tired of being "axed" a question. I am tired of the verb 'to be' not being conjugated. Is this culture? To argue that it is, to allow others to argue that it is, to suggest that there are bigger fish to fry is dangerous. I have no qualms talking about everything that needs to be done to not end up in jail or murdered. No baby steps folks. Do it all at one time and do it for the right reason - for yourself. I will not ever accept the argument that to do so is "acting white." What does that mean? English, spoken and written properly, is not white - it isn't any color! It is a language which has rules, like all other languages. What I hear are excuses for why things can not be accomplished. They sound like the excuses I used to make about why I couldn't do math, lose weight or learn a new skill, because I was afraid or I didn't try hard enough. I got over the fear of what others might think of me and decided to try. I was not always successful, but I kept trying instead of blaming others for my failure. The desire to try came from within, it can not be given to you by anyone! It can be encouraged, but it is not handed to anyone. As for the encouragement, I say that the best person to offer it may be someone who has done it themselves. But why not look to someone who knows how to do a particular thing and learn from them? Some of my best teachers have been of the opposite gender, a different race and/or from foreign countries. It is ridiculous to restrict one's self by saying, "I can only learn from another black man from the projects." Really? That sounds like a person not interested in learning at all unless it is something they want to hear. This is a huge topic and you are right, struggle and others need to step up and show a fraction of the interest that you and I have!
Everything you say is true and if this were a perfect world, your standpoint on how to handle the situation would be perfect and right on point. Unfortunately, this isn't a perfect world(how cliche). I wish some people didn't fear learning from those who are different from them, but the fact of the matter is that is the reality. Everyone needs to look at these situation as reality. It may not be yours or mine, but it is someone's reality. And these individuals aren't going to want to learn from someone who degrades their reality. That's why they stray away from those who are different because those who are different have a tendency to judge what doesn't make sense to them. But this life makes sense to them. And until someone understands that first, they don't have the ability to get a response from these individuals.
BLCO9, No, I disagree. There life is not working for them either. They die or end up in jail, often for life. They are caught up and live in a ghettoized culture where the black middle class moved out of West Oakland decades ago during urban renewal. And thousands of more successful black people move out of Oakland too as to not expose their children to a highly ghettoized culture. The people trapped in this life by and large are only exposed to their own kind and are not exposed to others nor have experiences outside of the ghetto.
And because of the general lawlessness throughout Oakland, a sideshow culture in all of the flatlands, boomboxes, whistles, etc. etc. and a lack of curfew for youth due to a small police force which is unable to enforce curfew, these Oakland residents see the same pattern throughout the city.
Also, OPD has stated that the high numbers of parolees and probationers in Oakland in return bring back prison culture to the city, in the form of more violence and gangs, to this degree the ghettoized culture than becomes more like prison culture than ever before in history with the highest number of people in prison in the USA not only in our history, but throughout almost the entire world.
Also, the families of the prison inmates than come and live in Oakland in order to visit them and you have whole entire families and multi-generations exposed to criminality, criminal philosphies and criminal lifestyles. These criminals also travel throughout the country exporting their gangs and gang culture through the drug trade. So you then see the duplication of ghettoized and prison culture throughout the black community in the entire nation.
Therefore, the necessity for better rehab in prison and education becomes more critical than ever. They have already studied the California prison system and found it to be a complete failure. But rather than pouring the monies into rehab to prevent recidism and wasting monies locking people up for life, we are just doing the same flawed philosphy of building more prisons to warehouse more people.The bottom line is Oakland's solutions and the solution of this problem lies far beyond just individuals as societal institutions are now perpetuating, intensifying and spreading the problems of prison and ghettoized culture in cities like Detroit, Chicago, Oakland, LA, etc. etc.
it's fine to talk how people should do differently, but the reality that JIF doesn't want to acknowledge is that people follow models. And in the ghettoized en[bleep]es of West and East Oakland, the major role model is ghetto. The citizens in this town have waited too long to reclaim their public housing projects and streets from organized crime. Larry Reid has been useless. Just a person who attends funerals but doesn't mobilize his own people. Same with Desley Brooks who just puts on concerts and poetry readings to entertain her constituency.
And the black church, once the foremost leader of the civil rights movement, has become bogged down in the poverty trough and looking for handouts from state and local government and Bush, too, as government now funnels monies to the communities through the big corrupt church leaders in our society. There is now a huge political vacuum within the black community when it comes to political leadership which is what, first and foremost, I see these folks needing but have none.
Those who could and should lead political movements just look to enhance their own personal fortures and power within the megachurches throughout America, black AND white creating vast personal empires using churches to acquire land thru tax-emempt status.
Or else they promote being a small business as a solution for every unemployed black person in America which is absurd! This is what they try to entice the kids in the high schools of West Oakland with as if every kid can become an owner of a small business at a time when small businesses have a record rate of bankruptcy.
Decades ago the "nonprofit" status coopted political culture and turned political movements into personal organizational fiefdoms. The whole concept of political organizing and struggle has been lost and black and white people today are paying the price, but particular the African American community which has suffered the most from the loss of manufacturing jobs in the East Bay.
No. the current problems do NOT go directly back to slavery as some would allege. The present two generations of black people in the inner ghettoes and cities of America have gone BACKWARDS from their grandparents generation. And it is directly linked to things such as the closing of auto plants in Detroit and Flint Michigan. It's directly related to the structural changes and NAFTA agreements that have exported our domestic economy abroad to third world countries as well as created open borders with Mexico to ensure a large, cheap labor poolin this country. Farmworkers and illegals get paid 50 cents to the dollar for other workers. Now GO FIGURE! And if you don't believe me, then ask black leaders like John Conyers who has represented Michigan and people like Congressman Charles Rangel. Ask Congresswoman Maxine Waters down in LA. And ask old Ron Dellums too.
Check this out Traveler. I agree with everything you said in your post, except the part about me not realizing that children learn from those who model what is "acceptable" behavior. I tend not to be very tolerant of the excuses that I hear on these forums because I have heard all the same excuses from my two drug addict siblings. I am as sickened by my own family as I am of what I see going on in Oakland. I have a brother who created a child with another dope fiend. She has four children with three "baby daddies." The kid never had a chance with two addicted parents and all the chaos that comes from moving to avoid eviction, debt collectors and drug dealers. I have not had enough contact with the child because the hosebag mother had to move on to another loser with whom she could procreate. Sadly, I expect the kid to end up a criminal just like the lot of losers around the house. So, don't worry this is equal opportunity disgust and hate (yes, hate!) that I have for this lifestyle.
Jif, you seem to have contradicted yourself. On the one hand you say you are tired of the excuses, and everyone can sympathize with these comments, but on the other hand you state you believe "the kid", (do you recognize him as your nephew?) doesn't have a chance growing up? I believe that's what Trouble I See has been trying to state every day on these sites as well as others. That some people in this world, don't have a chance from the gitgo.
I've met a lot of cute kids and seen some of them grow up and become not so cute to put it mildly. To me there is nothing more painful than knowing that young children, youth, people, and babies don't have chances in this world and that they are lost from the very beginning. So when they enter their teenage years and start to engage in the destructive behaviors that were unknown when I grew up, they become violent, lost and a menace to the rest of the society. The rest of society becomes fearful of these violent, out-of-control youth and rightly so. Both black and white express these fears. We all know something needs to be done. We know there is a very desperate situation out there for all these lost souls growing up. They are going to harm others and themselves. It's a crisis literally out there.
And I personally wish there could be better solutions out there than presently exist. This is not a perfect world and right now, in my opinion, the humane solutions that could address the problems simply don't exist because most people in this world are not socialized in the schools or society to think outside the box. People are educated and propagandized to think within certain parameters which come with given outcomes. These are reinforced daily as every evening Americans sit at home with their TV sets.
And that's why those of us who comment are commenting. Because we all feel frustrated, and many are in pain and anger. Sometimes the anger explodes outward onto innocent targets. The thing is you need to realize that others feel the same way you do about your nephew. And some folks have many family members in that situation, others have less. But is there anyone that doesn't have a problematic sibling in any family? Look at Paris Hilton with all her millions and her drunk driving arrests? I believe pain and dysfunctionality exists in all families regardless of race, income and class. But the problem is some folks dysfunctionalities impact other folks' much more. Those who turn into street criminals impact our lives more immediately than the white collar criminals whose actions are not as immediately life threatening to the rest of us, but life threatening all the same in the longer run.
I support the police. I believe we need more police in the short term. We need personal change and responsbility and societal change and responsbility. But I don't have a magic wand and neither do others. There are no simple solutions although drastic ones are necessary.
I know the gender of the child, I choose to not disclose it. I agree this child will likely turn into one of the people I talk about negatively, but that will ultimately be that child's fault. The kid is old enough now to know the difference between right and wrong (I've laid it out, more than once). If the wrong decision is made I will have little sympathy, I will not defend the criminal behavior and I will not bail anyone out of jail. See the difference?
Jif, If you agree your relative will turn out badly, then how can this be his fault? Because his environment is stronger than you are as an influence? that's the facts, for many kids. environment vs. parental influence. There are middle class parents who bail out their children all the time when they get into trouble. They don't want them to pay a big price for mistakes made in their youth. I just bet if it were your own child, you'd hire a defense attorney too just like James Council's family.
It's funny, when I went home yesterday, I thought about this issue a little further and I came to the same realization regarding slavery. I fell into the trap of not thinking about all that happened between the emancipation and modern day. I get very frustrated thinking about this issue because I try to put it all in one box. What I appreciate about your post is the recognition that it can't all fit in that box. There's so many factors as to why people are the way they are and why these communities exist as they are. It's just very disheartening to accept that there isn't just one solution because there isn't just one problem. Being a student at an HBCU, I wish all black Americans had the joy of realizing that there is success for all of us to achieve. And that you don't have to fit into a certain box, or be from a certain place to achieve that success. I just want black Americans, as a whole, to be a group of people that the outsiders don't generally stray away from, or see as a disgrace or worthless to this country. I myself have fallen victim to being embarrassed and almost hating that obnoxious, rude, and ignorant group of kids were the same race as me. We have a voice and a power that we as a whole don't realize and it hurts. But what hurts more is that someone can reach out to those people that live that lifestyle, and a minute percentage will take head to what that person is saying or the empowering knowledge provided.
BLC09, in my opinion, the small numbers that can heed the warnings is true of many humans and groups throughout society, even those at the very very top of our society including President Bush. A quick analogy, the right wing has and still continues to pooh pooh global warming as a reality. But for the first time recently Bush recognized the challenges and problems of global warming at a recent international conference. It took our president EIGHT YEARS. It's taken our society 20 years.
Unfortunately, by the time many of these youth grasp this, they are in jail or with long prison records. But people do indeed have the capacity to graps things. Time has run out, unfortunately, for many Oakland youth with the incredible availability of guns.
jif,jif,jif,sorry i took so long to respond,been busy but i just got to ur comment replying to my comment.i hope ur not just some creep from walnut creek upset cause some jerk broke into ur car and stole ur stereo.my reason for saying this is because u dont sound like uve ever stepped foot on a ghetto street.please dont think im being sarcastic but u DONT HAVE A CLUE u dont get it because u never lived it.my people are MENTALLY TRAPPED as well as culturallly,when i say culturally im speaking on a culture called THE GHETTO i know u say its know such thing but u might want to reconsider ur thinking because there is a culture called THE GHETTO,THE STREETS,THE SLUMS,which ever suits u ,my people dont believe in the law,they dont believe in the goverment,they dont believe in people that think the way u do.why?because ur world does not accept them as human being!did u hear me,r u listening to what im saying .u criticize them, u look down on them,u dont give them jobs because they dont have high school educations ,r they cant read,etc,they dont dress according to ur standards,they have gold teeth,they dont look trustful,etc.let me explain something to u,and please try to understand what im saying because im not here to get into irrelavant debates r comment battles,if u havent already noticed they dont want ur help anymore then u want to give it to them,WHY?because they been rejected by ur society so many times throughout there live,they ve learned to survive without ur worlds help .notice i keep separating our world from urs even though we live in some what the same world.the reason im doing this is because in realitly our worlds r separated because when i get pulled over by the police the first thing they ask me is R U ON PROBATION R PAROLE,have u ever had that happen to u r someone u know?anyway even though i feel u dont have a clue to what r why im still going to answer ur questions FOR THE PEOPLE READING THIS WHO DO UNDERSTAND,because rather u believe it r not its a method to this madness but thats something ill get into later if u start making sense TO ME.ok u spoke on me taking responsibility for my children,i dont know where r why u believe that i dont do the best i can for my two girls(ages2and4)u missed my point but ill try to be more understanding next time.about the shootings, not only across the street from schools ,but violence across the world is a sad thing.ill explain it like this,people send there kids to the army to fight for this country,but when they go into battle they learn that war on the sreet is no different from war wit another country.we go to iraq and our soliers kill children,mothers,fathers,dogs,etc,why?because they feel like there doing it for our country.its the same in the slums,u shoot at somebody for respect,because in the ghetto respect is everything.why?because when u grow up in a world simular to iraq then u learn to protect the little u have,period.the world is filled with bullies,ur president is one of them,ur goverment stills from u every hour of the day ,charge u for it,and u respect them with the upmost.i dont know u to really speak on what type of person u r so i wont,but for u to not come from the streets and comment on me and how i choose to live my life to me shows how narrow minded and blind u really r.jif there are plenty people who go near injured animals ,they also actually help injured animals,i dont know if u were just upset r ur just that much naive .before i speak on ACORN i want u to know i was arrested in the sting but im not from THE ACORN GANG though i can go into the center without being shot at.u say they pray on the weak,ur right !but to them the weak are stronger than them,they attack them because they feel like they can afford to be attacked.now u might want to try to figure out what i meant by that last line,when u figure that out then i might consider u worthy of my conversation .and about ur olive branch ur talking about.jif i shop at nordstroms,eat hundred dollar dinners ,drive fifthy thousand dollar cars,and guess what I PAY TAXES,so please know who before u speak on why.STRUGGLE REPRESENTER OVER AND OUT!
Struggle, rest assured I am not some creep from Walnut Creek, I doubt I would fit in there. My car was broken into here in Oakland, twice. The cars were not SUVs, BMWs, Mercedes Benz, Cadillacs or any other car that cost over $10,000, and never $50,000. I feel it is a crime to spend a bunch of money on a vehicle that will lose half it's value the second I drive it off the lot. So to use your logic it would seem that your $50,000 car would have been the better one to break into since you would appear to be able to afford it better than I. But, that is an interesting issue that you raise. You drive expensive cars, drop hundreds on a meal, shop at Nordstroms,etc. I drive a 10 year old piece of junk car, I cook at home and only eat out as a treat and I shop at Nordstrom's Outlet (only when they have a sale on the sale). Where do you live and how safe is it for your children? Will your children be sent to the best schools you can afford or can you not afford private schools because of that car, meals (that are literally in the toilet now) and the expensive clothes? I am not trying to pick a fight with you on this, but it seems to me that you are proud of those physical things but are not in any way trying to improve your children's futures. Your children should be your priority, but you say that they are no better off and no safer than children in the middle of a war zone. If I had to eat PB&J for the rest of my life to afford to live somewhere that my kids were safe I would say, "Bring on the PB&J's!" Your children are a precious gift. They did not ask to be brought into this world, so it is your job to make that world a better place - for their sake! I do not know how it is that you can afford all the things that you say can afford, but if it is through the sales of drugs then you are not making this a better place for your kids. There is nothing more pathetic, and often times nothing more sickening, than a crack head! You know what I am talking about. They are dirty, bizarre, desperate, twitching, hollow shells of what used to be human beings! They are the ones who have broken into my car I'm guessing. For what? A rock so they can get high, not to feed their kids who have all been taken by CPS.
I most assuredly understand your comment about attacking those who appear to be weak, but are actually stronger. You mean that they have all the power (which equals money) in "my" world, but they are weak in "your" world because they are not fighters or armed with guns to defend that which is theirs. Just because you take from the rich and give to the poor does not make you Robin Hood. If you want to believe the romanticized version of the Robin Hood legend then at least you could say he did it to feed his people and he never hurt anyone that he robbed. Can the Acorn crew say the same? How many people have been beat down and shot for their wallets and purses? What came of the money that was taken? Did everyone enjoy smoking some grapes and drinking Hennessy? Or did they buy books and shoes for their children? There is nothing noble about pistol whipping a man in front of his pregnant wife as was done at the Milano Restaurant. Nothing! In the end, what do these robberies truly accomplish? Have the guys used the money to improve their situation? Or have they only lent credence to belief that all the criminals in Oakland are young, black males? This is a double edged sword, or even better yet a vicious cycle. So you say "my" world will not give guys from "your" world a job because they look like thugs. Would that be the same look as the guy who robbed his pregnant wife and degraded him in front of her? I hate to say it, but I wouldn't give you a job either if that was my last memory of someone with gold teeth and baggy jeans.
Finally, see my posts below about my family. If you think for one moment I do not know about the ghetto after reading that then there is nothing I can do to convince you. The ghetto I grew up in was the white trash variety, but the same outcome resulted for many. Over the years I have heard about the deaths and incarceration of many of the people I went to high school with. Acutally, never mind my posts, read what jejejeje wrote about ghettos and kapos. This is possibly the most on point description of the Oakland ghettos that I have ever read. If what je said does not move you to tears, then I would be worried.
BTW I am not a Republican, Bush is not "my" president and I do not recognize the government that is currently "running" this nation into the ground.
A final thought - your willingness to engage in this conversation tells me that you do not believe you are as trapped in the ghetto as others. Encourage others to break free from those chains. The cruel reality is that I will continue to lead a relatively comfortable lifestyle whether or not you and the rest of your friends cast off the ghetto mentality chains. Our paths may cross if some day I am identified as the "weak" one and targeted for a robbery. Regardless of what happens, my insurance will replace what is lost and your friends will still struggle in the oppression of the ghetto. It seems to me the better option is to aspire to be the one with the power, but to never lord it over anyone!
You are in support of governmental policies that want to penalize the street drug dealers but not the big fish bringing it into our country. We have very sophisticated technology and unlimited warrantless wiretapping which could bring down a lot of very big fish in our country paid for by us the taxpayers. And we know exactly where it's coming from and being grown both within and outside our borders. But this technology and government intelligence isn't being used to stop the drug war in the streets. Furthermore, if our government truly wanted to stop the DEMAND supply of drugs, they would use other strategies. The FEDS know what's happening to the inner cities and so does Congress. There are many different avenues and strategies the Feds could employ starting with decriminalization of these drugs. The monies wasted on prisons, prosecution and the county hospitals which adds up to several billion per year could be used for more rehab clinics and job training including GED.
Our society is organized irrationally with irrational priorities. Rather than decriminalizing drug use we lock up drug users. Rather than putting gangsterism to bed, we fuel it. We ignore the larger economic picture. The conservative mantra is personal responsbility while Bush has decimated the public education system thru Leave No Child behind.
Everyone knows there is a better, more humane way to approach the problem but nobody wants to fight for it. Many people in Oakland are suffering from the effects of the drug way but those in a position to fight and demand a radically different approach don't want to do it.
So turning to the most broken down despondent members of society who are ill-educated, uneducated and have no hope, is the way you choose to resolve the problem? Doesn't make sense to me. Seems like more irrationality. More personalizing what is a societal problem with federal policies like the War on Drugs which has failed, but that you don't want to talk about this or why. So, the President, Congress and the citizens who support them and these policies through their tax dollars have no personal responsibilities to change their government's failed policies? No, I guess you don't. So instead of taking a big picture approach, you take a subjective moralistic one which doesn't include the irresponsibility of the big players, but only of the small players.
Meanwhile, Americans are getting politically disenfranchised wholesale throughout this country because of politicians who are bought and paid for by corporations. And yet you expect the most politically, economically and socially disenfranchised citizens to miraculously turn around their lives when if they worked minimum wage jobs they wouldn't even be able to pay for food AND rent let alone heating. I know this because I've seen plenty houses where I've lived in Oakland had the PG&E and water company representatives constantly come out and turn these utilities off and on. Struggle is NOT representative so let's just forget about him because my poor neighbors didn't go out to eat, didn't shop at Nordstroms, and didn't own cars (some of them). Given today's inflation and the high cost of living your conservative mantra of "holding your nose to the grindstone" philosphy and claiming your children's futures will be ensured is a JOKE and a CRUEL hoax. Housing, food, energy costs, gasoline have risen astronomically since you and I grew up and now your income isn't at the same level it was when you grew up and neither is the price of your house. Cars even cost a small fortune when you include all the insurance and upkeep.Lastly, where are these jobs anyway in a economy shedding thousands of jobs each month as the recession deepens? Certainly not in Oakland.
You cannot compare society and societal institutions today to what they were even 20 years ago. The inner cities were left to die once the manufacturing sector took a hike. And in their place the drug economy marched in along with prison economy. Yes, let us know forget that imprisoning people is now an American industry that gives jobs to people throughout Northern California--entire towns.So, we take down criminals in Oakland and create new ones in other cities--we impoverish entire towns in the rural areas which already are decimated by the California budget crisis and the public education and public infrastructure crisis.
I'm just repeating Struggle's message, but elaborating on some of his points. So, what was your response? To pick up on the last few things he said and use it to personally critique him for poor financial decisionmaking and poor parenting based on unknowns he has given you and you constructing some kind of artificial scenario on how he could succeed. It's simply ludicrous. Your whole construct is based on thin air but convenient in order to duck the largers issues.
Even when parents do parent and do everything right they and their children cannot escape poverty. THIS IS FACT.The parents are getting sick and dying for lack of medical care. The children are unparented because the parents, one or both work. The schools are bad environments, they are being c losed en masse and so are the libraries throughout the nation. But wait, wave a personal wand called good parenting, and the infrastructure crisis disappears. is cured. Schools educate, jobs appear, libraries re-open housing is archeap, gas and public transportation and medical care all suddenly are not factors.JIF, I think you're ghettoized too. You cannot see outside Oakland and it's ghettos if you life depended on it to look at the larger picture.
My last points, poverty exists without gangsterism in other places. But still, I read recently people throughout the Northwest, ( and we are talking about WHITE PEOPLE here,) not the ACORN GANG, will have to choose between fuel and food this winter as heating costs shoot up 40% a Northwest energy corporation announced.
So Jif and others, if this the HOPE you are holding out to the impoverished youth and poor people in West Oakland? That if they just stop shooting they can shiver or starve more peacefully in their homes this winter?
Little Lady, it's true for black folks it is deeper than that. But the economic crisis too will impact poor people and black people the hardest of all. People might live in their own parts of town and in different towns, but we are all living under a Repubilcan guvernator and Repubilcan President. And saying he's your president not mine, frankly, I'm tired of hearing that as Oakland is largely a Democratic City--like 80% with a 37% AFrican American population only which has also elected Barbara Lee as our congresswoman. Nobody lives in vaccumm, we all live within an economy.
There's a reason why the drug economy is flourishing now more than ever--it coincides with an economic recession and the dismantling of welfare, a federal policy, not a local policy.If you want to offer youth and people hope, first we have to talk reality. Not make believe worlds.
But I agree. It cannot be done until you get people off of drugs and get them literate. That's a start. How to do this I don't know. I don't know how when there are no jobs you can tell people to stop dealing drugs. You to offer them a way out as a practical matter that looks just as good as what they are doing now.
As long as TV holds up the goodies and the lifestyle, people feel deprived. They want it too, and why not? Everyone else has it. So why shouldn't they? We live in a society where people can have basic needs addressed and minimal goodies for everyone. But we need more than a social justice movement. We need an economic justice movement too.
Ron Dellums is trying as Mayor to provide the way out by providing more city jobs. Given the recession and a falling economy with housing values dropping weekly, I support him on this as there is no state or federal government that can help Oakland now. And people gripe about this too from sheer and utter prejudice when it makes all the sense in the world. What do people want? To destroy Oakland's consumer base as well? Well, cutting off welfare has helped to do that too.
Anyway, I tackle Jif where I think he is wrong and challenge him. There are other discussions too that need to take place with other folks on issues I cannot address and participate in. But there are issues I can address. Like the fact that the federal government has cut union jobs and that it has disapproportionately affected African Americans and particularly African American women. So, I'm saying the crisis goes far beyond and if people could come together around common issues then it would benefit all. But if we don't talk about the larger issues and what the common grounds are, we will all get stuck in our own individual miseries and all of us will go down individually and privately. But go down, we will. It's inevitable now the way things are going in this country.
So the key here as I see it is making political alliance sfor the changes that need to come that will benefit us all.
I agree with most of your views Traveler. I'm not as polished as you are on these issues regarding the government, so all I can ask of you are references.
About drugs and the economic recession : Drugs have been ruling Oakland and many other cities for a looooong time. My Father may not have been Felix, but his family was definitely the second best. And that's where I really agree with you. The Big Wigs could stop it, but they don't because they are the corporate "[bleep]" - They are at the top stacking cheese while the "little" drug dealers on the block do their dirty work. Some of the guys slangin' out there do not realize that they are erand boys - they do not see the big picture.
I agree with you. They can't see beyond the music videos, the iconic music about money, hoes, 24's, and representin' the block. But when you draw the bottom line it's alllll about money - gettin' that money ! And when Lil' Po (whatever) wants the same thing that those artist have on the music videos, they want it like RIGHT NOW, not now (as in the future) trying to work for it. Although there are some youngsters who do want to work for it.
I don't always buy into this impoverished so feel sorry for me [bleep]. There are kids who come from the suburbs wanting experience the urban lifestyle. I don't understand it, but then again it may be the media influence of what's cool.
The robberies that are going on now are probably due to the state of the economy. Well prisons help boost the economy, so who really gives a [bleep] ? I've heard my friends say this, so tell me if this isn't true because I don't have any references for that !
Economic Movement - YES !
Just need to talk about when, where and how !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Little Lady, here's the link to a documentary that was made about the town of Susanville, California, a northern California town that tried to revive its economy by getting a prison to locate there. Entire small towns in northern California have their employment and economy based on a local prison. If you open the link there is a review about this film which aired on public TV KQED a while back.
"In the 1990s, at the height of the prison-building boom, a prison opened in rural America every 15 days. "Prison Town, USA" tells the story of Susanville, ..."www.pbs.org/pov/pov2007/prisontown/ - 24k -
Cached - Similar pageshttp://www.pbs.org/pov/pov2007/prisontown/for.html
But first we need more literacy programs. Here is my suggestion for what it's worth:
To develop free community schools taught by volunteers to conduct free classes in the school to help illiterate individuals become literate. They could be held in the schools at night, the public libraries or any other place. The community itself needs to organize, propagandize this program and recruit. I believe there are many good hearted individuals out there, many retired school teachers and others committed to Oakland who would help to volunteer freely. There are many mentoring in thes chools right now who could be tapped upon as volunteer teachers. This is the first start of a campaign.
2) part two or part One A before Literacy, is getting more people into the new County drug rehab. ActsGospel did this for one half a million dollars and saved around 36 people but they had to live their and be taught work values, discipline, etc. The community needs to organize itself, get places in churches for free to get drug people a place where they can come daily to an AAA type of drug meeting. There needs to be volunteers at all levels to help as space is limited in public programs. There are a lot of retired and good hearted people at there in the unions, in the Democratic clubs and retirees. If the community could organize itself and get meeting places where people can go daily for reinforce and to stay out of trouble, it would be a big step.
A community campaign to press for illiteracy so illterate people can become politically active on their own behalf to press for the other things they need.
Part 3 is the Green jobs Movement which the Ella Baker Center is pushing. Getting as many people educated, disciplined and ready for work. the work that will be coming is in the green energy business. The cities and states in America are all competing with each other for these jobs. There are something like 3,000 in the Bay area. The aim should be to reach and educate every youth in West and East Oakland in school to urge them to prepare for these jobs. Scholarships to Laney and other places are needed for the specialized training.
They have a few hundred slots but we have 5,000 criminals in Oakland. the goal should be to place 1,000 in Laney for these jobs. Mayor 'Dellums' goal is for a few hundred.
For more information contact Ella Baker Center on 40th St. Check out the link below for information about this green energy job movement which they are spearheading.
http://www.fullcirclefund.org/ellabakercenter.php
Those are my suggestions. A lot of work to be done but Oakland has democratic clubs people can go to and ask for help and support plus a county and state democratic organization. This is the easiest part though.
The hard part is getting the individuals and keeping them on track. Every single person needs a mentor like you are doing. They need someone monitoring them all the time. I know this because I've been there and done it. There are other opportunities in the community too where people are willing to give jobs. But it requires first GED or English language and highly motivated and disciplined individuals.
The tragic thing I've encountered is that by the time a person reaches their forties and has been an alcoholic or drug user, there bodies are broken by and large. And their emotional and spiritual wills have long been lost to the bottle. There is so much psychological damage done by low esteem and a lack of esteem that is almost virtually impossible to repair, particularly as a person gets older and habituated to escape through narcotics and alcohol.
I've worked with several individuals and seen the process. it's almost like you have to personally adopt a person to save them which is more than most of us can physically or emotionally do. And tragically, many are unsaveable. But the goal is to keep youth in school with a viable promise.
Kids are hardened by the 5th and 6th grades. People need to come from Ella Baker Center and talk to the kids in elementary school grade six and the middle schools BEFORE they are lost. They need to visit the parent and family and social worker and help get every youth into a track where education leads to a job and the child has a goal. People who have gone through the program should give presentations to the communities at the schools or libraries--not just make political speeches to those who already agree with them. they need to be pressured to link to those directly who need the jobs.
That's it. Need to go out and get some fresh air now.
You're doing the Lord's work. If you want to email me offline, I'll create an email address for you to reach me.
MAN ITS GOOD PLAYBOY!!! I FEEL YOU ALL THESE PEOPLE ON THIS FORUM IS, IS TALK!!! THEY COULD CARE LESS ABOUT THE THINGS YOU AND I GO OR WENT THROUGH!!! AND HOW YOU KNOW, WE SPEAK FROM THE INSIDE OUT WITH SUGGESTIONS ON HOW TO BEGIN CORRECTING THESE ISSUSES WITH RESULTS!!! DO THEY LISTEN NO BUT WHY AND THEY DONT EVEN CROSS THROUGH OUR SIDES OF TOWN(NOT EVEN FOR A SHORT CUT RATHER SIT IN TRAFFIC)?!! CHECK UP ON DAT PROGRAM LIL"R" LIL"D" BROTHA WAS GOING TO ITS GOOD OR IF YOU COULD RAP WITH ELO BOUT THEM TUESDAYS!!!
Yeah, I hope they hire John Burris and sue the police for making them pull the trigger and act like wild animals across the street from a child care facility. It is OPD's fault if any on those kids gets hurt or killed not the savage animals who care little for their own lives let alone that of a three year old.
If you see someone slapping around a little kid, what's your reaction? You know it's wrong, maybe it might have even happened to you when you were small and still thought the world was a great place. So would you at least call the police and say what you saw, what you know? Or do you shrug/turn away/look somewhere else because it's not your problem, not your business, you don't what to get involved? If yes, well then, my fellow citizens of Oakland, life will continue as it is. Yes, it's scary to speak up. I've been there before -- I'm sure many of us have. We don't want to get in trouble, be unpopular, be uncool, cause attention to be drawn to ourselves, fear retribution. But we all d*mn well know that our silence means it's OK & allows it all to continue. One thing you can do is call OPD's Crimestoppers: 510-777-8572 (voicemail) or 510-777-3211 (live). Use a pay phone. Just step up. Law enforcement CANNOT do it all without our help, be it publicly or anonymously. There really is no acceptable alternative.
There you have it people. A certain proclamation of doom for Oakland coming from the horse's mouth! Only call the police if your drug addled mind believes that the police have done something wrong, not if your neighbor whose name you know has just shot someone. Brilliant! I think Dellums should use the above post as his next campaign slogan, after all this is why Oakland is a model city.
HAVE YOU EVER BEEN IN A ROOM FULL OF KILLERS? ON THE STREETS? HAVE YOU EVER WATCHED SOMEONE GET THE LIFE SHOT OUT OF THEM? WATCH THIER BODY LOCK UP AFTER IT TOOK ITS LAST MOVE AND BREATH? THEN WATCHED THE MAN THAT KILLED HIM LOOK YOU IN YOUR EYES AS HE MADE HIS ESCAPE YOU ARE HAPPY TO STILL BE ALIVE AFTER HE LEFT? ITS REAL LIFE OUT HERE YOU TELL ON HIM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Why do you blacks keep calling yourself african-american or think of youselves as being from africa? They don`t want to be associated with people like you. The people that I have met from africa,speak perfect english,better than most white folks.They raise their children to respect their parents,and elders. what has happened to you people!You are not african in any sense of the word! You people are you are an embarrasment to the word AFRICA.70% of black children are born to single mothers,how can you expect the next generation to prosper, not gonna happen.The kukluxklan could not have done a better job of screwing you people up,they don`t have to string you up or lynch you, you are doing it to youselves and serving the time in prison time,and showing your children how life should be.when the african chiefs traded your forefathers, they traded the conquered tribes and the undesirables,and the mentally ill and the violently insane,that is your african heritage.
All the africans I know are in America, and Africa wasn't looking all that hott when they left. Blacks in america are pretty much the only ones who still carried the torch for Africa and still held to the mystique of the motherland up until recently I'd argue- even if a lot of it's due to some unattainable fantasy of a grand migration to a utopian promisedland some have been singing about on since sunday school. Africans wanted to come here(and still do), blacks wanted to go there- cuz bothwere being stepped on by the man.
Many africans want no part of africa because in many places there, their leaders behave like the young cats from the acorns not to mention economic blight throughout many areas. In many ways they've adpted the european standard of governance and behaviour- might makes right- while fighting over the scraps that the imperialist left behind. So when an african expresses disdain or prejudice against african americans, it should be viewed with the same perception that allows one to see the effect slavery had in causing internal conflict within black society- such as light skinned black vs.dark skinned- that exist even today. Imagine a siberian tiger walking up to a bengaled tiger saying "I cant sand yo mf'rs" or "I don't like your sripes." I'd say that was one tiger hating [bleep] tiger. What sense would that make?
Africans also dealt with the reprecussions of slavery... in the form of apartheid.
Blacks and Aficans: 0
The man: 1
Blacks, Africans, and Third World underdeveloped nations victims of slavery, colonialism, and imperialism:0
Capital and global multinational corporations: 1
Your post is full of generalizations. You can never, never ever judge a group - only individuals. That is one of my rules. ALL African-Americans do not have these views, and I am one of them that you call Black. You are right about Africans speaking English superbly, but not ALL of them. Did you know that the main language in Ghana is English ? Where are these Africans from that you know ? What are your references ? Please let me know. I'll be going to the library soon.
When is the last time you've been to Africa ? I'd like to know about your experience. I'm always open to learning new things.......................
I assume you're lumping me in with that ranti character-please don't. My rant was a whimsical response-rant to the one before my own.
I know my post was full of generalizations and overstatements- that's why used phrases like "pretty much, in many places, many africans, all the africans I know." I though it could be take lightly, but oh well....
You ever hear of a "warlord"? If you were from africa you most certainly would have because many parts of the country are plagued by warlords and warring political factions corrupt officials and defunct economies ect... Long story short, every african you see here is here for a reason- to get something the could'nt get as readily back in africa-they're not here sightseeing. So any african that feels a sense of superiority to african americans, is delusional becasue both african americans and africans have been wounded by the same hand. And to be honest I only have 2-4 people I can call good friends and a few random acquiantances that i can draw actuall experience as I have never been- from nigeria, ghana, and seira leone as I recall. While I can't sit here and replay what they relaed to me verbatim, I can relay my understanding of the hersay: While I'm waxing poetic about how nice the idea of going to africa would be, they would remind me that it wasn't all peaches and cream in places they'd come from and that some of the violence was worse than it was here. That there was more prosperity, freedom/rights and opportunity here in America.
As far as the proper english goes, I never mentioned that but there are many people from third world countries who's native language is not english yet speak it superbly- that just further illustrates the dominance of european ideals upon other peoples cultures
Posted on Mon, 07/28/2008 - 21:19 — by jdtenhunnitblockAP
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