Police have no motive, witnesses in city's 69th homicide


The Trouble I See
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Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 504
eggbert
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Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 153

hmmmmmmm, not sure how the city "caring" for the person that got shot, would place blame on the City.  Blame should be squarely placed upon the subject (or subjects) who shot the victim.

erniem
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Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 364

The Trouble i see believes that "The City" is a magical organization that can make everything perfect for everyone if it just takes action according to him.  The city can give thugs jobs that pay $80k a year and require no work, as well as cars and health benefits. The city can give grants to make sure that everyone has a TV, six pack, and air conditioned room. The City is magical.

jif
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Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 350

Perhaps, the "City" is feeling no more cooperative than the undoubtedly dozens of witnesses who watched this thuggery occur, but can not see fit to provide information to the much beleagured OPD homicide investigators.  Just a thought, I could be wrong.

The Trouble I See
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What you guys are failing to realize is the fact that it does not take magic! This is not rocket science! Would you go some where that you knew you might die everyday if you felt you did not have to? Just simple preventive measures not just jail now everybody cant be helped but more can be helped than are getting help! Stop thinking you can fix a problem that you have not been threw and ask for help!

reality616
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Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 13

Let me first just say that the key to all this violence is truly education and with Oakland only graduating 46% of its students it should come as no surprise that things like this happen. That being said let me offer my condolences to the victims’ families. When I read this story of the shooting of 22 year old Demetrius A. Church Oakland’s 69th homicide victim it bothered me, reading further that there were “no cooperating witnesses” made me even more upset but not for the obvious reasons.  “No cooperating witnesses “implies that the witnesses were part of this massively over- stated “stop snitching” rule in the hip-hop community, maybe the witnesses were possibly scared of some sort of retaliation or that the witnesses themselves had something to hide and therefore wouldn’t cooperate with the police.  The reality I believe is that the witnesses and in fact the whole community harbor resentment towards the police and the entire governmental establishment for what they feel is an apathetic attitude towards their daily situations. Let’s keep it real for a moment; I’ve spent many a night at and around downtown Oakland from the soon to be new FOX Theater on telegraph all the way up to the Kaiser Permanente hospital on West MacArthur and it’s clear that Oakland has invested millions in a considerable gentrification project in that area and as a result I have seen at least 15 patrol cars on any given night constantly patrolling  that 2 mile area, I’ve even seen police officers on bicycles not motorcycles but bicycles riding up and down the block smiling and talking to pedestrians, which has to be a first for Oakland.  Now, I often times wonder if there had been this bicycle patrol in east Oakland namely on seminary a week ago maybe Mathew Thomas would be alive today instead of having his funeral which was on July 3.  See Mathew Thomas was that young 31 year old man who was shot on June 21 while trying to buy some food from Tom’s Chinese restaurant and because some people outside decided to get into a confrontation and someone decided to handle it with a gun Mathew an innocent bystander is now dead.  While this story is sad in of itself it brings me back to my original point about apathy.  Mathew Thomas was a young man; a husband of several years, a father, and a deacon of a church, yet his story wasn’t in the papers or on the news, there were no obituaries, there was no information about the services, or where one could send flowers or offer condolences to the family, there were no police officers or representatives of the City of Oakland at the funeral assuring family  and friends that everything was being done to catch the perpetrators , nor was there any mention of a place to send donations to help his kid who must now grow up without a father. What was so undeserving of Mathew’s story that he didn’t deserve the same attention that the tree sitters at Berkeley received from the local media, why was it that upon further research of the other homicides that have happened in Oakland this year I could not find any of the for mentioned information on the majority of cases. The harsh reality is that as long as these acts of violence happen to the “right type of individuals “namely young African American and Latino men under the age of 35, and takes place in the “right zip code “nobody seems to care whether these people live or die and they (the people most affect by these crimes) realize it and until we bring these people into mainstream society and show them that we care what happens to them by having police patrol the areas in east Oakland the same way the patrol around the FOX theater, by putting out all the information relevant including ways to help the family when crimes like these occur, by not accepting the type of lame excuses offered by people like Assistant Police Chief Howard Jordan who say that the reasons for the homicide rate have to be because Oakland has a high number of probation and parolees as if there is no way to track these individuals and make sure that they are getting the proper training, counseling, and job placement that will insure that their transition back into normal society is a successful  then these types of crimes will continue to happen.

 

virgo08
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Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 2

Great comment!

Assistant Police Chief Howard spoke truley regarding the release of parolees, however he just gave us the reason, not the resolution.

I was appauled to learn that parolees do not have to have an address to parole to? There is no release "plan". No reunification with family "plan". Job search or training guides to support a "plan". These are just a few requirements that should be adressed prior to release.

What does this country expect??? It's a viscious cycle!

I just stay in my house and that isn't even safe anymore..............

 

erniem
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Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 364

I agree with most of what you said.  It takes thirty minutes to get a cop to my neighborhood, in the downtown gentry area, there will be 15 cops at a problem in two minutes.  Crimes in certain zip codes are not priority.

 

At the same time, in other zip codes, a shooting will have ten witnesses with license plates, descriptions, times, and even photos.  In the trouble zip codes, no one will step up. As long as that is the case, the crime there will continue unabated, EVEN with more cops. If there are no witnesses, there is no case.

The Trouble I See
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Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 504

HOW MANY DEAD BODIES HAVE YOU SEEN ON THE GROUND BRAIN MATTER IN THE STREET? THE POLICE COULD CARE LESS ABOUT YOU AFTER YOU GIVE THEM INFORMATION ARE THEY GOING TO PROTECT YOU 24-7 AND WHY DOES IT HAVE TO BE THE HIP-HOP CULTURE TO BE HONEST IT IS MORE SNITCHES ON THE STREET NOW THAN EVER!!! BUT BECAUSE A PERSON DOES NOT TELL DOES NOT MEAN THEY ARE PART OF A HIP-HOP CULTURE WHY CANT THEY JUST WANT TO MIND THEIR OWN BUSINESS?

jif
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Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 350

I will respond to you first Trouble.  When someone is murdered it IS the business of every member of society.  Furthermore, it is even more so the business of every member of the community where it happened lest they too become victims.  No, the police can not protect those who provide eye witness testimony (not "snitching" we should not use the vernacular of the thugs) but the community could.  The community could make it very clear that they encourage cooperation and do not want to see harm come to those who do.  That, simply, is not the case in many Oakland neighborhoods.  The reasons are myriad, including the nearly incestuous relationship that exists in many of the lower-income neighborhoods where everyone is "family" and, therefore, can not be guilty.  It is often the case that many of the witnesses maintain some allegiance to the suspect and the deceased and can not find it within themselves to "disrespect" either by talking to the police.  Talking to the one member of the community who is willing to exact retribution is OK though.  And the cycle continues...

Reality, you make some interesting observations.  The distribution of police resources is seemingly predicated on money, but there are other factors at play.  Specifically, where the foot patrol units are assigned.  The officers on bikes are often assigned to foot patrol.  Most foot patrol officers work in area where there are thriving business districts (Laurel, Piedmont, College, etc.)  It might be the case that the business owners have the political savvy and will to ensure that there is a strong police presence, whereas the residents of Seminary Ave. are not as interested in such police scrutiny.  With regard to the lack of media attention for the man who was killed at Tom's, I think the attention was on the overwhelming number of murders (seven!) during that bloody weekend, not the individual casualties.  I believe that OPD homicide investigators work tirelessly, and often thanklessly, on ALL of their cases.  Very often they know who the killer is but can not make an arrest because the DA will not charge a case without witnesses.  We are back to the beginning.  I am reminded of a famous quote from Robert F. Kennedy.  It goes somthing like:  Every society gets the type of criminal it deserves.  What is equally true is that every community gets the kind of law enforcement it insists upon.  Oakland's citizens would do well to reflect on his words and consider what role they play in making that statement so profoundly true.

Dare
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Joined: May 2008
Posts: 22

Realityman,

Your post is long winded and out of touch. The scene you describe of 15 police officers patrolling a two mile stretch is more a stretch of imagination than reality. And in reality, if you were a police officer riding a bicycle on Seminary you might likely get run down by a sideshow clown.

But keep on dreamin and callin it reality. A fertile imagination is not only good for story telling, it sometimes invents useful solutions to real problems.

eggbert
eggbert's picture

Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 153

It's troubling that people seem to place blame on the City, the Police and "snitches" who inform on murderers. 

That logic is all twisted.  But I guess there always has to be one nutjob on these forums.

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