Posted on Thu, 05/29/2008 - 11:31 — by jamielien2002
My son is an 8th grader going to Hopkins Junior High School. Recently we have been notified he is not eligible to go to Great America and possibly promotion ceremony and social due to 2 failing grades. My son, husband and I are very bothered by the school policy. And we think the school (district) need to revisit the reason for this policy. Should kids be punished for performing poorly at school? Does it make sense to you?
My son has ADD and has been struggling with school. After setting up the 504 plan with the school and having him try different medications, the issue still exists. My son has been feeling tremendous pressure which causes some emotional issues, and the grades haven't been improved. I believe some kids do have a limit due to physical or emotional reasons that they just can't perform well academically at school. And I can't figure out why the school should punish the kids with poor grades!
I can understand kids with behavior problems being punished, but what's the reason for punishing kids with failing grades. Those kids already have very low self esteem. Instead of helping these students, the school is peeling their emotional scars! As a parent, it's so hard to see my child bear the embarrasment! Could you support us?
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Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 28
Report avis
Personally, I applaud parents and teachers who keep poorly performing students from extra-curricular activities. The students are there to learn, not go to the theme parks, play sports or "walk the stage." It is definitely time that Oakland schools put more emphasis on academics than anything else, I can assure you that future employers will care what students learned and not what school outings they attended.
However, if your child has ADD and cannot learn then your child should be in a special school geared to their special needs. If your child has poor self esteem perhaps you should consider counseling for the child, but it is not the teachers job to do anything but teach.
Teachers should not be called on to be counselors or deal with the myriad of problems that many of these children bring to the classroom, they are there to TEACH. If you child has special problems please deal with those outside the classroom so that the teacher can educate everyone in the classroom and not spend all day on special needs kids.
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 6
Report slim-jim
@jamielien2002 - Is your child disruptive in class?. I'm asking as my sons class has a "problem child" in it. We're told he has ADD, but this child disrupts the class and just basically causes so much trouble that the other kids can not learn.
Yes, we're told that the child has ADD, but why is my son punished by that?. My son is losing an education because of this "no child left behind" policy when children like this are forced into normal classrooms. If the parents can't control their own offspring and their actions, getting upset about a school policy should be the least of your worries.
If your child is disruptive in class, you should do the right thing and remove him. Perhaps you should stop making excuses for your child and actually be a parent. Yes, this sounds harsh, but look at it from my point of view instead of the " everyone feel sorry for me" point of view.
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 1
Report wings08
All chidren deserve to be taught in the Least Restrictive Environment. Before removing any student, a parent should ask, "Is the teacher using the best possible classroom management skills?" Is she/he getting the support they need from their school district, to help them devise better strategies and skills? Has the behavior team been called in to assess the situation? Have academic requirements been modified to "really" meet the student's needs? All of these are important facts that need to be addressed before removing the student and dooming them to some non public environment. Is there a Positive Behavior Support Plan in place? Is someone keeping data on the teacher to see if he/she is properly reinforcing the positive behaviors and NOT reinforcing the inapropriate behaviors? There is so much that can be done before shipping a child out. Yes it disrupts the class, but reward those other kids for learning how to ignore. There are a lot of strategies that teachers need to be willing to use to help this hard to handle kids. They are hard to handle for a reason. Some where along the line they have not been taught the appropriate skills to make it in the mainstream. If you keep shipping them out, what does that teach them? It teaches them, "I can't do it, so I act up, I get out of what I can't do that's hard for me, and I move on. Oh yea, and no one really cares about me or wants to help me learn because they just keep getting rid of me and moving me elsewhere, so someone else can try to deal with me." Why not teach them the apropriate and necesarry skills to survive in the mainstream? What's happened to our system? Share the love people. Not the hate and frustration.
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 68
Report vjb50
Personally, I do not feel this a new policy. My youngest son is now 19 years of age. This appears to be an excuse you are making for your child. My son was also diagnosed with ADD, late he was 15.5, but he was not a problem child nor was he disruptive in any of his classrooms, and to other children. One thing some parents begin to do, is immediately start making excuses for their children, and why they feel it is not fair, that their child cannot participate in the after school function, graduation ceremonies and etc. Think about it, if your son is behaving badly at home do you reward him for doing so, or does he receive a punishment? If my son were to have failed two classes, I would not let him attend the extra curricular activities with the other children, Why should he go and have a good time, when he does not deserve it? Do you see the problem with your question? I feel your worry is that your child will be embarrassed just like his parents are. Your child needs to understand that he cannot participate in activities with failing grades. Make your child be responsible for his actions. It is not the fault of the school, it within the policy of the district. Teach your child a lesson and perhaps you will learn one also. Having a child with ADD is a curse, he is your child, make him understand, there consequences to having failing grades. Yes, there ADD children who suffer from the lack of low self-esteem, it is you his parent job to lift him up, encourage him to do better, and reward him when he starts doing better in his school work. Also, sometimes school work can be challenging to ADD children, because they can lose their concentration. Of, there is medication. My son started taking medication when he was about 15.5, after six months he stopped taking the medication, never needed medication again. If your child needs to be placed in Special Ed classes, then do so for your child. Do not hold him back, that is his education also, and be fair to the other children.
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 1
Report angel612
I understand what you are saying about your son's self-esteem. However, there are a few things you can do. First of all, has your son been evaluated for special ed services? If he's on a 504 plan, you can add a clause in that allows him a designated amount of extra time, to finish his assignments, tests etc..without penalty. You have to specifiy exactly. Usually, the SST comes up with this. Second, you can ask your school psychologist and teacher to put him on a "positive behavioral support plan." This will help with his behaviors (whether he is disruptive or not). In addition to that, there is after school tutoring, and the possibility of a 1:1 paraeducator to help him out with those difficult classes. Read the Ed Codes. There is all kinds of support you can get for kids with disabilities.
As for the trip, I agree a child should not be punished. I also agree a child should not be given a positive reward for negative behavior. His teacher should have sent home a progress report well in advance, stating that he was in danger of failing. At that point, you could have set up a meeting to figure out how to get him atleast to a D, which is passing. The rule about not attending is at all of the junior high schools, not just Hopkins. It's been like that for years. Parents and teachers need to communicate better. If your child's ADD is as severe as you say, he should be re-evaluated and you should consider getting him special services. If he's getting F's in class, and he passes the evaluation process for special ed., then his issues are more behavioral and you should address that. I hope this helps. Also, a very good book to read is, "The ADD Solution" by Dr. Frank Lawless.
Good Luck
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 1
Report MyKidsAdvocate
Always reference the Parent Handbook and Notice of Rights & Responsibilities Handbook for 2007-2008. Often parents sign this as a required document and never look back. It is a valuable resource and is not only provided at the beginning of every school year, but also available online at http://www.fremont.k12.ca.us/prg/ParentGuardianStudentHandbook.pdf
"Concerns regarding students with a 504 Plan are addressed first at the site level with the 504 Team and the Principal. Any further concerns regarding this process or its outcome should be referred to the Director of Pupil Services at (510) 659-2534. (EC56301; BP/AR 6170)"
You might start with sharing the Fremont Unified School District Board Policy number 5130.1 with your school site. http://www.fremont.k12.ca.us/5000Series.pdf Page 183-184
Board Policy 5130.1 is new to FUSD. In the Fall of 2007 this policy was approved by the Board of Education. Since it is so new, staff may not have a complete understanding of the basis of such a policy. In my opinion, the basis comes from the Federal Statutes and the Federal and State Regulations that are noted at the end of the FUSD Policy.
In this case, the child has ADD, is on medication, has a 504, and is performing poorly in school. If you are suggesting that the student is performing poorly due to the disability that has qualified him for a 504 plan, then I believe you have a case of "lack of knowledge" from the school site. I little education can go a long way with us adults too.
I don't think this is an issue of the school punishing your child for poor grades. It sounds more like a reward for the students that performed well and your son is caught in the middle.
In any case, your child has not met the expectations that have been identified in order to attend the reward trip. HOWEVER, your child has a disability that may be the result of his not reaching the expectations. THEREFORE, he may then be eligable to attend the trip.
When all is said and done. If he attends the trip or not, ask yourself a few questions.
Is your child's 504 a document that you are happy with? Are there areas of concern that are not addressed in the plan? Behavior is an area that is either overlooked or goals are set for the student, both.... offering zero guidance and support from the school site. Does your child not only have accomodations, but does the plan state how he might overcome the need for such accomodations. The odds are.....he is in the right placement without meeting his unique needs. His needs might appropriatly be accomplished with RTI (Response to Intervention). However, FUSD has yet to implement this model.
504 is not just a plan written to suggest accomodations for a student. Section 504 is a Law that states that: “No otherwise qualified individual with a disability in the United States, as defined in section 706(8) of this title, shall, solely by reason of her or his disability, be excluded from the participation in, be denied the benefits of, or be subjected to discrimination under any program or activity receiving Federal financial assistance....” [29 U.S.C. §794(a), 34 C.F.R. §104.4(a)].
Most importantly, a child with ADD/ADHD is not acting out or misbehaving on purpose. They have difficulty controlling behavior and often need guidance and patience. This can be challenging for those who do not understand the condition. People often think that the child is making the choice to act up. It is your job to advocate for your child and educate those who do not understand.
Hope this helps. Anna mykidsadvocate@comcast.net
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 1
Report drkenny
Hi, My name is Kenny Handelman, and I am pretty far from the Bay Area... I am a child psychiatrist from Canada - just outside Toronto. Someone just posted about this forum thread onto my blog, and I wanted to 'chime in'. Let's be clear about this: ADHD is a medical condition... If someone was in a wheelchair - and the ramp wasn't working properly - would the school penalize him/her for not getting in the door on time? Or would they work to fix the ramp, so that this child would have the same access to his/her education as the other students? If your child is trying hard, you are working to get the proper treatment for ADHD (but haven't quite found the right one yet), you are working with the school to create an educational plan to make it work - then I think that your child SHOULD be included in extra curriculars and socials. Otherwise - it's punitive. And unnecessarily so... Let's be clear about extra-curriculars. There are some kids who have every non-school hour scheduled. Swimming classes MOnday, Dance class Tuesday, Wednesday morning Basketball, etc. This is NOT what I'm suggesting. HOwever, a balanced plan - which includes some extra activities - hopefully physical - and leaves some time for school work - can be a very important part of a successful plan. One of the issues that children with ADHD have is the need to move around. If we 'punish' them by taking away their ability to get physically active - we are really making things worse. See the new book by Dr. John Ratey called: 'Spark' (you can find it at www.theadhdbookstore.com). By no means am I suggesting that kids with ADHD should be given a 'pass' and not expected to learn, try hard and produce results. I just believe that it's best if they can be handled in a positive way which will allow them to grow and build their self esteem in the process. I wish you well, Dr. Kenny Handelman My blog: www.addadhdblog.com My Newsletter: www.theadhddoctor.com
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 510
Report The Trouble I See
OAKLAND, Calif. -- A 2-month investigation into the expenses of Oakland Mayor Ron Dellums has found a pattern of what appears to be extravagant spending at taxpayer expense, even as the mayor suggests shutting down City Hall for a dozen days and raising taxes.
The expenses include stays at 5-star hotels in Washington D.C. such as the Four Seasons and Ritz Carlton, on his many travels away from Oakland, although Dellums owns a luxurious home in the nearby exclusive en[bleep]e of Georgetown. The data obtained though the California Public Records Act also shows expensive meals, limousine services and even hundreds of dollars in flowers – all at taxpayer expense.
Oakland is facing a $14.5 million deficit in the next financial year. Dellums is calling for furloughing city workers for 12 days in the next 12 months – all without pay – and severely cutting back already stretched city services.
He is also recommending a $12 million tax hike to deal with the city’s notorious crime problem that has many Oakland residents in an uproar.
The KTVU Channel 2 probe also found Dellums has a staff almost twice as large as the previous mayor’s, now Attorney General Jerry Brown. Among the more than dozen new positions for Dellums is a fulltime chauffeur, who gets paid $60,000 a year.
While Brown spent $120 in reimbursed expenses in his last year in office, the KTVU Channel 2 probe found Dellums has spent more than $50,000 in personal expenses above and beyond his $183,000 a year salary. Brown turned down raises and made $115,000. He drove himself.
Brown’s staff spent some $2,000 in taxpayer money on reimbursed expenses in his last year in office, compared to almost $50,000 by the Dellums staff.
A detailed examination of Dellums calendar also found the 72-year-old Dellums worked significantly less than eight hours a day at least a full third of all the work days he did clock.
A Dellums spokesman said the mayor was unavailable to comment.
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 1
Report aimcifer
I don't know what's worse, the school punishing children for having medical conditions, or other parents encouraging it to happen. My son is 6 and yesterday was diagnosed with ADHD and mild autism (PPD-NOS). Children like this NEED social interaction and physical activity. These kids are not BAD kids. Schools should be able to accomodate these children and their parents to the best of their ability, not punished, nor told by others that their children should be kicked out of school and put in a "special" school. Let me tell you, my son is extremely smart. He is way above grade level in reading, math, spelling, etc. But yes, he is disruptive due to his medical condition, which we are working on with counselling and medication. There is no way I'd be pulling him out of school when he has EVERY RIGHT to learn, just like the other kids. Thank goodness he has an extremely understanding and caring teacher who loves him and has been his advocate at school alongside my husband and myself.
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 6
Report oaklandman08
The performance of students in a classroom is a function of a number things, but principally the teacher's ability to teach.
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 1
Report ranter
There are a number of variables to this question. All sides need to be considered. Did you get a response from the teacher if you had questions? Have the school and all of your Son’s teachers worked with his 504 plans. Has your Son been tested, if so why does he not have an IEP? Is he in a resource class? Here is the other big question: If a child is failing are we looking at the teacher also? Mission Schools are more concerned with the high achievers, not the children that need help and other ways to learn. Heaven forbid if a child in a Mission school needs help to learn. This is a form of discrimination that is not looked at and by some of the postings they want it to continue.
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 1
Report twokidznadog
My 12 yr old son also has ADD and barely passed from 6th to 7th grade...and I mean barely. My husband and I were and will continue to be our son's advocate. He's a good kid with a good heart. All of his teachers were great w/him. I do not believe a child should be punished for less than perfect grades. After all, none of us are perfect and we're considered adults! Please remember we are talking about children and going to Great America and all the other perts are ok w/me. I do agree these must be earn, but if the child really tried then let him go. After reading all the comments from you parents, I'm glad my son went to a school who really believe in helping ALL childrent regardless of ADD, ADHD or other short-comings. Afterall, one of these kids may find the cancer cure!!
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 320
Report erniem
As always, this is a difficult topic. When disruptive kids are in the classroom with kids who behave and work at study, they bring the level of education down. Which harms everyone except the one kid doing the disturbing, who is supposedly helped. I agree that education is everyone's problem, but let's not make this into an issue of victimhood. One of the biggest problems in today's schools IS the huge amount of disruptive behavior. Part of it stemming from permissive parents or non existent parenting.
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 128
Report bluepeas
I can't believe what I just read, are you for real? Sounds like you're puttin pressure on your son by making it obvious you're embarrassed for him, or he's embarrassing you by not being able to attend the promotion ceremony. His school is in Fremont but out here in Oakland they also don't allow the kids to participate if they don't get their grades up. They also have to past a test to graduate & walk the stage. I know several kids who are struggling attending summer school due to this & they're not throwin a hissy fit. A little mad but thats it. Maybe the school you have him in is too mentally challenging for him presently. In Wash. State they tried to tell me that my son was ADD when he was 8 and wanted me to experiment w/ all these medications also. The first time I gave him Cylert and he said, "mmmh mom this makes me feel sleepy. I like this!" I said oh hell no! their not turnin my son into a baby drug addict. I did alot of reseaching, tossed the meds and eliminated anything w/ sugar from his diet. By than CPS stepped in and threatened to take him from me if I didn't medicate him. They took me to court & I packed up & came back to Oakland. The doctors here all agreed w/ me. I then put him in a private school w/ less than 12 kids per teacher, checked out his teacher's credentials & I went back to school and took Child & Adolescent Psychology classes while workin on my degree. I did that so I could understand what all the hoopala was about w/ ADD & kids. By 13 he was the smartest kid in class w/ Most Improved Student, etc certificates & when he graduated jr. high, he walked the stage. He trained in boxing & became a health nut. While his friends bought dougnuts, candy and soda, they'd laughed b/c he'd buy bran muffins, o.j and bagels, lol. Matter of fact when he got in some trouble w/ another kid the counselors and teachers in juvenile hall told me he was too smart for their books. He told me the all the boys up there were hella slow & there was 10, 11th graders doing what he did in the 5th grade. I don't believe in that ADD cr*p. Your son may simply be high spirited or have a learning disability such as problems processing information, especially if he's had any head injuries. The teachers can't do all the work. They're here to HELP us teach our children. It's up to you to work w/ him & watch what you feed him. That makes a big difference! We are what we eat. Vitamin B, the brain pill...makes sure he gets alot of that. It helps the memory.
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 320
Report erniem
Great post and great info from bluepeas. The American Medical Association is criminal in its behavior and its acceptance of psychiatric drugs as a "cure" for what are many times nutrition or cognitive problems that can be solved with other means. But the AMA and its doctors make MONEY, as do the drug companies, by pimping drugs as a cure for social ills.
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 63
Report ennyk67
I honestly believe you are more concerned with the day care aspect of school rather than education. You make it clear you have no concern for the other children's education. Your child obviously needs a special school. You need to consider becoming a better parent. Don't blame the school for your failure as a parent. Your child doesn't have ADD. You child has an excuse to act up. This is an excuse you have given him.
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 5
Report Judy McFarland
Whoa there - ennyk67. That's a real harsh take on the issue. It sounds to me as if some children are getting punished twice. First, they are punished by the schools for not recognizing a child's learning disability. Second, they are punished by the schools for having a disability.
Bluepeas - you are a star example of what a great parent should do for their child. This society of ours needs every parent to be this tough for their kids.
We have so much information available to us nowadays which has a "good" side to it and a "bad" side to it. The "good" is having the ability to understand what the child is experiencing and the "bad" is that there is so much worthless info that you have to sift through. We expect our children to do their homework - parents need to do theirs.
The schools have a tough job to do regarding controlling some very ill-behaved kids. I don't believe that it should be a "black and white" decision. Some kids actually fall into the "grey" area when there is a true diagnosis of a child being educationally challenged. I feel that a decision should remain between the teacher and the parents. If the teacher agrees with the parents that the child is failing because of behaviorial problems - then he/she should not be allowed to participate in such activities.
Communication and education are essential tools for all of us. I wish every parent the best of luck.
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 2
Report MAUREEN_OHARA
To the OP:
As a former Jr. High teacher who was in charge of organizing and planning all 8th grade promotion activities, I am surprised that you or your son were not informed of the rules for the end of the year activities before May! Students are told throughout the year what THEIR responsibilities are in order to participate in promotion and trip. MANY notes are sent home during the year and at my school all the information was printed in the Agenda each student receives at the beginning of the year.
Students with special needs are given a contract that is created with SST members, parents, AND the student. If the student makes no attempt to achieve these very liberal modifications then of course they will not be allowed to participate.
Since this is all over and done with by now, you as a parent need to be concentrating on what lies ahead for your child in High School. Become informed from the start of the school year. I hope you read all the above responses as there were some great examples as to how parents are being PARENTS!
Good Luck!
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 3
Report GardenD
The days of humiliating a child who has problems in school by sitting him in a corner with a dunce cap on his head should be over. Children who try , but can't keep up academically need to be treated with compassion and given encouragement and extra help, rather than being singled out and excluded from school activities.
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 1
Report larryaimer
This sounds as bad as the thinking behind Ebonics a few years back...it's a shame that we don't have better educators than this...
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 1
Report aconcernedmom
What do you think you kid is doing when they go to school everyday and cannot pass a class? They are disruptive to the whole class. The teacher spends 75% of their time on the disruptive students. I have gone on field trips with children who have ADD and surprise most parents of these children do not attend the field trips, so instead of enjoying the field trip, the teachers and other parents have to babysit the children. Another solution would be for the parents of ADD children who do NOT meet the criteria be forced to attend the function with their children.
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 63
Report ennyk67
If a kid has ADD, he is basically a retard. He should be placed in a special school for kids with special needs. It is completely unfair to normal children to suffer because some selfish parents who are dodging the truth want their kids to mingle with normal kids. A more radical solution is to kill any kidd diagnosed with ADD. Of course then doctors would cease that diagnosis and then we would just have to kill all kids who disrupt class. I like that. Let's just kill disruptive kids and their parents. The would will become a much better place.